Posts by Incognigo Montoya

29

Why doesn't the Watchtower Society never study the Bible cover to cover?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

in the 40 years as a jehovah's witness, i never read the bible cover to cover.

the three meetings a week were broken up with book studies, awake and watchtower magazines,and ministry& field service meetings, all written by the watchtower society.

never did we read any chapters from genesis to revelation and discuss the true meaning of what we just read.

Incognigo Montoya

Yes, the first talk covered a few consecutive chapters in a sequential bible book, and the number 2 talk was a bible reading of a small, select few verses of one of those chapters, in the book, covered by the number 1 talk. This was done weekly, taking (i believe) about 2 1/2 years or so to cover the entire bible. You were supposed to read the entire bible chapter selections in your personal preparation for the meeting. So only 15-20 minutes were devoted to an average of 5 or so chapters of the bible, per week. Enough time to skim, but not nearly enough time to delve in. So, have I read the bible cover to cover? Yes. Have I studied the bible, cover to cover? No. And I would bet most witnesses, if honest, would respond the same.

24

JW.org marks International Women's Day 2019

by neat blue dog in

for the second year in a row, the org has marked international women's day.

this time, it's an article that lists most female bible characters in alphabetical order with a brief summary for each, topped by a picture of them in 'empowering' poses.

rey and captain marvel would be proud lol.. .

Incognigo Montoya

Yah, is there some kind of statement, noting international women's day? I would be shocked if they acknowledged it at all. Absolutely shocked. Blondies comment would be my line of thought as well, if it is actually in recognition of international women's day.

29

Why doesn't the Watchtower Society never study the Bible cover to cover?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

in the 40 years as a jehovah's witness, i never read the bible cover to cover.

the three meetings a week were broken up with book studies, awake and watchtower magazines,and ministry& field service meetings, all written by the watchtower society.

never did we read any chapters from genesis to revelation and discuss the true meaning of what we just read.

Incognigo Montoya

After coming back, I mentioned to an elder who had befriended me, that my wife and i were gonna read the bible from.cover to cover, as i really hadn't done that before, and neither had she (she wasn't a witness) the next meeting he brings me a printed out copy of a study guide, he downloaded from JW.org. it is an outline of how the society recommends you read the bible. And it "hopscotches" all over the different books. He insisted that this would help in understanding the bibles true meaning and would make it less confusing to read. I believed his sincerity, but just could not understand why in the world I needed to read the bible in their order. It really bothered me. Ultimately I never followed through and read it cover to cover. JeffT, your explanation makes perfect sense.

Wish I still had the outline to show you all. Threw it out. Maybe someone here knows what I'm talking about.

48

Corporal punishment

by Incognigo Montoya in

so i just finished watching the latest cedars video on spanking children.

i like lloyd, and think that overall he does a good job covering issues in his videos.

but i've gotta disagree with him on this issue, to a point.. i don't agree with beating your children, but i do believe in spanking, when appropriate.

Incognigo Montoya

Thank you for the response TD. I respect your view, though I obviously disagree. My experience says otherwise.

48

Corporal punishment

by Incognigo Montoya in

so i just finished watching the latest cedars video on spanking children.

i like lloyd, and think that overall he does a good job covering issues in his videos.

but i've gotta disagree with him on this issue, to a point.. i don't agree with beating your children, but i do believe in spanking, when appropriate.

Incognigo Montoya

Olig, I don't agree that; spanking may help build pain tolerance, is a good reason to spank. I simply feel that nature teaches with pain. Touch a hot stove, you're gonna get burned. Insist on teasing a dog, you're gonna get bit, stick a fork in a socket, you're gonna get electrocuted.

So, do I let them do those things and learn the lesson the hard way? If I do, we risk, long term pain, infection, trauma, even death.

I can sit them down and have a conversation about what will happen if they touch it, both physically, and disciplinary. Maybe they listen, learn, and never try again.

But what of the stubborn child who insists on doing it again? A smack to the hand associates pain to the action (let's not forget that if I weren't there, and he succeeded in touching, he'd be in pain anyway) My pain is much more temporary, though the lesson learned will perhaps last, but with far less side effects than the actual consequences, if they were to succeed in the follow through.

Maybe they do it again, anyway. And perhaps the hard way is the only way they learn. Well, at least I tried a more benign way. But that's realistic discipline.

48

Corporal punishment

by Incognigo Montoya in

so i just finished watching the latest cedars video on spanking children.

i like lloyd, and think that overall he does a good job covering issues in his videos.

but i've gotta disagree with him on this issue, to a point.. i don't agree with beating your children, but i do believe in spanking, when appropriate.

Incognigo Montoya

Absolutely agree, LoveUni

48

Corporal punishment

by Incognigo Montoya in

so i just finished watching the latest cedars video on spanking children.

i like lloyd, and think that overall he does a good job covering issues in his videos.

but i've gotta disagree with him on this issue, to a point.. i don't agree with beating your children, but i do believe in spanking, when appropriate.

Incognigo Montoya

All sorts of "creative" punishments can often end up punishing others unintentionally. For EXAMPLE (substitute special trip being taken away, grounding where a parent/parents have to cancel a night out together to make sure jr minds his grounding. Etc, etc, etc...) , Jr misbehaves and is told, "you can't go out for ice cream with us today". This punished grandma because she doesn't get to share ice cream with jr, since, you know, consistency in punishment and all... When a short, swift spank or two to the bottom, gets jr's attention, brings him back around to behaving, and 10 minutes later, everyone is on their way to an ice cream, happy as pie. Done, over. Life moves forward. Lesson learned.

Fact is, as I've said already, life isn't all soft falls on pillows. It can be unforgiving and painful. A few spankings when they're young, along with proper teaching and enlightenment, will result in teenagers who dont need to be spanked, or disciplined much, for that matter. I never did, once they hit puberty.

I am in agreement with you all, in reference to taking the time to teach why something is wrong, and why we don't do it. What happens if we do, is the utmost importance, but frankly, I dont believe any if you have had a precocious boy, insist on running out into the street, even after you've told him not to and explained why its dangerous and unacceptable.

Yes, I learned from spankings. No, I dont resent my parents for it. I was taught lessons in other ways, but the appropriate spanking drove home a point, in a quick manner, when needed. If I insist on doing something I'm told not to, there's gonna be a consequence that hurts. I don't want that. Guess I'll stop. Sure I was mad at my father for a few minutes, maybe. But we moved on. He didn't dwell on it and neither did I. I'm not a stunted human being because of it, and I don't whine about my childhood and let it hold me back, or blame my parents for my problems. Yes my parents weren't perfect, and neither was my childhood. But neither is life. Get over it and move on.

Frankly cofty, your solutions are virtuistic, but not always realistic. I agree, if all you do is yell and spank, its lazy parenting. But spanking is not lazy when it is necessary, and accompanied by conversation outlining the wrong and the correct action.

I'm still waiting to hear, those of you who are condemning spanking, were you spanked as a child; severity if the spanking. Was it beating? And how many children have you raised, without spanking, to adulthood?

For the record, I'm not saying its impossible. Again, different personalities and demeanors in children and parents, create different dynamics and scenarios. Maybe you're the perfect parent with an almost perfect child. Congratulations. Trust me, we aren't all like that...

And since we're on the subject of discipline, what about sending them to bed without supper? Not letting them use hot water when they shower? Washing their mouth out with soap? Biting a toddler who's going through a biting faze? Making a kid who is caught smoking, chain smoke cigarettes til they get sick? (For the record, these are all disciplines I never used, because i don't find them acceptable, but were either used on me, or friends I know)

Obviously, discipline is a sticky subject. Ultimately I would never tolerate a parent being physically abusive to a child, but if your kid is in my presence, I expect him or her to behave. Whatever you gotta do to make it happen, do it. The world will be a better place for it, especially when they become adults.

1

The Ride-Part ll

by eyeuse2badub in

the ride—part ll.

last year, about this time, i posted a new topic about a big group jw motorcycle ride.

just people having a good time with no f.o.g.!.

Incognigo Montoya

Nice! That sounds like a lot of fun. Unfortunately I don't live in California, or anywhere near there, otherwise, I would love to have rode along.

I posted a while back about motorcycles being frowned upon by witnesses, it turns out that in some places it is, but in others it's not a big deal. Curious.

Sounds like you had an enjoyable ride, and a nice day to do it. Thanks for sharing, and ride safe!

48

Corporal punishment

by Incognigo Montoya in

so i just finished watching the latest cedars video on spanking children.

i like lloyd, and think that overall he does a good job covering issues in his videos.

but i've gotta disagree with him on this issue, to a point.. i don't agree with beating your children, but i do believe in spanking, when appropriate.

Incognigo Montoya

Having slept on this, and then waking up to new comments, I guess I must clarify a few things. First, my examples were just that. You can substitute an electrical outlet for anything that's going to be painful and potentially cause great bodily harm/injury; touching a hot surface, running out into the street, being mean or aggressive towards a pet. Nature and life can often be unforgiving, and when you go too far, it can be painful. Pain often teaches us not to do something. Imo I would rather my child recieve a short quick (ultimately harmless) pain from me, someone who loves him, than the more painful and lasting effects of a dog bite, a burn, an electric shock, or getting hit by a car...

I agree with you cofty. Consistency in discipline is a must. Children push boundaries naturally and giving in to that isn't conducive to raising a well behaved child, or future adult. Problem is, all children are different, what works for one child will not always work for another. Some kids are stubborn and even defiant, at times.

My final thought here is for quite a few of you commenting, you keep referring to beating and hitting. A spanking is not beating or hitting. It is an open hand series of smacks on their bottom or hands, generally 3 or less. Force used appropriate to age and size of child. I am curious, those of you who are in disagreement with spanking; were you spanked as a child, or were you hit, beaten, kicked, punched, or otherwise abused? Do you have children of your own? More than one child? More than two?

I have 3. Each one different. I am not a perfect parent, but I tried to keep rules simple and just. I learned that what worked with my first child didn't work with the second. The first was easy. The second was much more difficult. At times defiant. The third, easier than the first two. I also learned that what seemed like a big deal with the first two, usually wasn't as big of a deal as I thought it to be, and that was reflected in the way I disciplined my last one. Letting things go that I didn't with the first one or two. That's on me, and my imperfect personality traits. But you learn and you move forward. They are young adults now, good, well adjusted, productive people. So I'm sticking by my original statement; most discipline can be handled without spanking, but there are times when it is warranted and needed.

48

Corporal punishment

by Incognigo Montoya in

so i just finished watching the latest cedars video on spanking children.

i like lloyd, and think that overall he does a good job covering issues in his videos.

but i've gotta disagree with him on this issue, to a point.. i don't agree with beating your children, but i do believe in spanking, when appropriate.

Incognigo Montoya

Blondie, adult mistakes carry far greater consequences than a spanking, which is why I believe spanking to be a good disciplinary tool, when implemented properly. Adults are fired from jobs, divorced, thrown in prison, seriously beaten, stabbed, shot, and killed, when they lack self control and respect for others. You know what they say about an ounce of prevention... a spanking now is far less severe than time in the Pen, later.